Thursday, February 15, 2007

“I’m Not Touching You”

By Man of American Dissent

I read this article earlier and the first thought that came to mind was that somehow the US was behind it. If I recall correctly, the vast majority of "insurgent" car bombers go down with the ship rather than ride away on motorbikes seconds before their explosives detonate. I have the distinct sense that a certain "element of instability" is trying to instigate a conflict with Iran.

It reminds me of games siblings play. Imagine two kids lying down at the opposite ends of a sofa engaged in playful, but competitive foot wrestling. The game goes on for awhile until one of them slips and the other gets kicked in the crotch. Then it's on. Kicks and fists go flying with head butts and the occasional bite soon to follow. Kids will do something similar on long driving trips. One will repeatedly touch the other until a fight (nearly) breaks out. Once a grownup has intervened, the toucher will then proceed to taunt the "touchee" by repeating the statement "I'm not touching you" in an effort to escalate the situation and provoke the other child.

My message to the children engaged in this very dangerous game is this. Do not make me stop this car. Stop touching/not touching, foot wrestilng and fake fighting now. Do not escalate. Use your words and work this out.

11 Comments:

Anonymous Dale H said...

M.O.A.D.~

Your comments comparing children to Bush AND Ahmadinejad is VERY unfair.......to children!

DH

1:17 PM  
Blogger Man of American Dissent said...

Dale you are correct.


To all children, I meant no offense by my remarks and I apologize for any offense that may have resulted from my statements.

4:00 PM  
Anonymous david said...

Well, I'd say the White House is the more childish of the two. Ahmadinejad is more like an eccentric uncle from the old country who is willing to engage in discussion but who always seems to be on a different page.

Bush, on the other hand, gives this We don't talk with Terrorists schtick, which is akin to stuffing his fingers in his ears and chanting, "I can't hear you."

What is bizarre is that the Iranian Islamic leadership and the President who came before Ahmadinejad had offered to help out in Afghanistan and Iraq, but were met with silence and a quick "Axis of Evil" slur. Which no doubt helped Ahmadinejad defeat Khatami at the polls.

I say give all these players a Time Out and call in a counsellor.

6:03 PM  
Anonymous Dale H said...

David~

"Ahmadinejad is more like an eccentric uncle from the old country who is willing to engage in discussion but who always seems to be on a different page."

If I were an Israeli I would look at "eccentric uncles", who
voice explicit threats toward Israel's existence as often as the rest of brush our teeth, at least as warily as the world SHOULD have looked at the published rantings of an eccentric paperhanger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad

"On December 12, 2006, Ahmadinejad addressed the International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust, and made comments about the future of Israel. He said, "Israel is about to crash. This is God's promise and the wish of all the world's nations." He continued, "Everyone must know that just as the U.S.S.R. disappeared, this will also be the fate of the Zionist regime, and humanity will be free."[111]

When a religious zealot starts telling me about "God's promise", IF I'm Israeli, I make certain the IDF's air force has both conventional bunker busters and nukes warming up in the bullpen.

Aren't the misjudgements of our own religious wingnut sufficient cause for concern
RE his Iranian doppelganger

DH

8:04 PM  
Anonymous david said...

dale h, I think you need to look up the word "explicit" in the dictionary.

I know Republicans like to claim that they destroyed the USSR, but that's completely untrue. And to say Israel will follow is not a threat of violence.

I'd also recommend reading the Haaretz Daily newspaper to find out what Israelis are really thinking. And stop taking the word of the wingnut lobby in the US whom Yitzak Rabin labelled "scumbags".

The embarrassing thing for Rice is that she has to pretend she never saw the 2003 proposal from President Khatami and Ayatollah that contained promise to stop funding anti-Israeli groups and to recognize the right of Israel to exist.

Ahmadinejad is not Hitler. He has no obsession with the Jews. His quarrel is with the US client state of Israel and its treatment of the Palestinians. He has not rounded up the Jews of Iran. Even his clownish conference on the Holocaust was attended by Jewish groups.

As most Middle Eastern critics of Israel will tell you, the Holocaust was a crime commited by Western Europe, so why are the Arabs being punished for it. Why weren't the Palestinians asked what they wanted? Because the West wanted to pay compensation with Other People's Money. (African Americans have never been compensated for slavery because there's no one to fob the debt on to and sending them all to Liberia was too expensive.)

There are only two solutions to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict: A return to the 1948 borders or the reversion to a single state. The latter solution is possible. It's what Canada has dealt with for the past 240 years. It's not a perfect Union, but French & English, Catholic & Protestant have managed to survive. And the separatist movement has actually produced some excellent reforms without breaking up the country.

Peace.

5:31 AM  
Anonymous Dale H said...

David,

Using "Peace" as your salutation does not negate the condescension of your post.

Just because I'm a Liberal who regularly reads and occasionaly posts on this site does not mean that I take the view that there are no
possible threats from the theocratic countries you are so inclined to give the benefit of the doubt.

I'm sure a "deal" can be worked out among Israel and her neighbors. I'm not sure it will happen until Syria produces its own Sadat.

I suppose Israel could live with a demilitarized and UN policed Golan Heights in return for recognition from Syria.

"Land for peace"
Sadat/Egypt/Sinai...worked.
Pull out of Gaza.....not so good.

Relying on a Lebanese government not strong enough to resist Syrian influence or control the free range Hezbollah....not so good.

One State Solution. Hmmm, Majority (Palestinian)
rule, Minority (Israeli rights? Get back to me on that one.


"Explicit" threats may be found here:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Iranian+threats+to+destroy+Israel&hl=en&rls=TSHA,TSHA:2005-52,TSHA:en&start=10&sa=N

where does it read that Ahmadinejad attributed the fall of the Soviet Union to the
Republicans? Have you inferred that as my view and mistaken me for a wingnut? That would be very wingnutstanian behavior on your part.


Looks like the "neighborhood" may be getting a little nervous. Could we see an alliance among the Saudis, Egyptians, Jordanians AND Israelis against Iran?

From the site you referred me to:

The Saudis and Iran: Saudi newspapers are now denouncing Iran's growing power. Religious leaders here, who view Shiism as heresy, have begun talking about a "Persian onslaught" that threatens Islam. In the salons and diwans of Riyadh, the "Iranian threat" is raised almost as frequently as the stock market. "Iran has become more dangerous than Israel itself," said Sheik Musa bin Abdulaziz, editor of the magazine Al Salafi, who describes himself as a moderate Salafi, a fundamentalist Muslim movement. "The Iranian revolution has come to renew the Persian presence in the region. This is the real clash of civilizations

8:28 AM  
Anonymous david said...

Wake up, dale h!
The terrorists who flew the four planes of September 11th were nearly all Saudi. Osama bin Laden is a Saudi. The radical Islam of Wahhabism is a Saudi sect. Saudi Arabia is more a theocracy than Iran.

When it comes to the Iraqi insurgency, more Americans have been killed or wounded by weapons supplied to the Sunnis by Saudi Arabia than have been killed by weapons supplied by Iran to the Shi'ites. And yet we hear nothing from the White House about Saudi meddling or the Saudi threat.

Consider the Axis of Evil: Iraq, Iran, and North Korea. Not one was connected to 9/11. Not one was a clear and present danger to the USA. And curiously, the moment the White House pulled its fingers out of its ears they had a deal with North Korea.

The threats you direct me to are mostly conjectures made by the Foreign Policy Establishment. That is, the Neo-Cons. Try visiting The Mossadegh Project for a more realistic criticism of Ahmadinejad and his government by actual Iranians.

BTW, I never said Ahmadinejad attributed the fall of the Soviet Union to the Republicans. You quoted Iran's president as saying Israel must vanish as the Soviet Union did. And nearly every Republican I know takes credit for the USSR's demise. However, the USSR's demise was due to corruption and economic failure. Nobody tried to "wipe it out".

Ahmadinejad is a fool, but he wouldn't have won the presidency if America hadn't invaded Iraq. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. But peace was within the White House's grasp in 2003 and they fumbled it.

Isreal hasn't pulled out of Gaza; they've isolated it. And las year's attack on Lebanon, as Haaretz will tell you, was a completely misguided disaster.

To link back to MOAD's original post, America has to become the honest broker again and insist that all parties talk PEACE and stop this one-up-manship that just leads to an escalating cycle of violence.

9:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Ahmadinejad is not Hitler.”

No, he is not Hitler. He only wishes. Just give him the opportunity.

“He has no obsession with the Jews.”

Really? To hear him talk, one would think otherwise. Here are some of his quotes

“Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,”

“There is no doubt that the new wave (of attacks) in Palestine will wipe off this stigma (Israel) from the face of the Islamic world, ... The World without Zionism.”

“As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,”

"Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations."

"If the West does not support Israel, this regime will be toppled. As it has lost its raison d' tre, Israel will be annihilated."

"Israel is a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed."

“Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm."

"We are ready to hold dialogue with all countries of the world except for the Israeli regime."

The last I heard, Israel consisted mostly of Jews. What do you suppose happens to the Jewish people of Israel if Ahmadinejad gets his way?

“His quarrel is with the US client state of Israel and its treatment of the Palestinians.”

The poor “Palestinians.” My heart bleeds for them with every “Palestinian” lunatic homicide bomber that blows up a Jew. Every time Israel talks peace, the “Palestinians” speed up the line of homicide bombers marching into Israel.

“As most Middle Eastern critics of Israel will tell you, the Holocaust was a crime commited by Western Europe, so why are the Arabs being punished for it.”

Google up Grand Mufti, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini and then tell me about the innocence of Arab leaders during WWII.

11:09 AM  
Anonymous david said...

Anonymous, three of your so-called quotes are corrupted translations of the same passage. And if you'd gone to The Mossadegh Project you'd have seen that even this is not a direct quote.

And why mention the Grand Mufti and not Pius XII? There is no doubt that the Grand Mufti was a Nazi collaborator, but this returns to my statement that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

You will recall that Ireland also collaborated with the Nazis because they were both enemies of Britain. Britain was no friend to the Palestinians. Having secured their help fighting the Germans in the first World War, the British betrayed the Palestinians and refused to grant them independence.

I know your heart doesn't bleed for the Palestinians. But the fact remains that there will be no peace if we can't get people to admit their own crimes and to admit that the other has rights.

1:43 PM  
Anonymous Dale H. said...

David and Anonymous~

OK. Anonymous has 3 out of 8 quotes on the expression of Iranian intentions toward Israel "thrown out", which still leaves at least five statements that in personal confrontation would legally qualify as 'fighting words' and might get you cold-cocked by the threatened party. (See Nasser and the prelude to the '67, six day war.)

I suspect you would have been content, if not exultant, if the Israelis had not preempted and instead had taken their
"push into the sea" like they had it coming.

I believe that there are occasions on which Liberals, like everyone else, need to be ashamed.

Giving a pass to the wingnuts of the Middle East while pounding our home grown version
is myopic at best, hypocritical to say the least and one of those occasions.

Me? I "have to "wake up"!?

Israeli withdrawal from Gaza is not withdrawal but rather "isolation". Orwell would be proud.

Since neither Anonymous nor myself are reading from the 'sacred text' you've whacked the two of us over the head with, "The Mossadegh Project", I guess we have to defer to superior knowledge.

"You will recall that Ireland also collaborated with the Nazis because they were both enemies of Britain", supports the philosophy of the much aggrieved Arab tribes who embrace "the enemy of my enemy as my friend".

The first instance in which you state the betrayal, perfidy AND crimes committed by Arabs against each other, the Israelis and yes, the Palestinians, or the rest of the world, without excusing it as a "reaction to an action will be, well........the first time.

"A little people, a silly people, greedy, barbarous and cruel". Whether actually written by T.E Lawrence or
scripted for Peter O'Toole, it rings as true now as then and is reinforced with virtually every news story from that part of the world.

Let's face it, since they gave us our numerals and algebra it's been pretty much down hill for them!

Oh yeah, those who've read my stuff before will realize that it's just a mixture of satire, sarcasm and venting, as well as a 'reaction', toward patronizing 'lectures'.

Guilty!

6:12 PM  
Anonymous david said...

I am sorry to say,dale h, that most Americans never hear any story that doesn't "reinforce" the idea that America is the home of Freedom or that all terrorists are Muslims.

I don't see that I've been patronizing, but I find it odd that you refuse to read the websites I've recommended. I checked out the websites you recommended.

Of course this is dialogue Guantanamo style. There is one offical story and it is reinforced through hearsay, forced confessions, and anonymous sources.

I would recommend that instead of learning Middle Eastern history from David Lean films, you might actually pick up T.E. Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom. You'll find it doesn't support your stereotyping.

Remember that Anwar Sadat attacked Israel in 1973 before making peace only a few years later. There is no point talking peace with your friends; you must talk peace with your enemies.

For there to be peace we have to drop this Noble Israeli/Bloodthirty Arab nonsense. Last year's war over a minor border skirmish was an absurd overreaction that has left the Israeli public disgusted with Olmert & Peretz.

There are two sides and both have legitimate grievances. Unfortunately, no one is acting as Lady Justice. Instead we have the endless feuding of tribalism. What is needed is a Truth & Reconcilation Commission. And the USA must guarantee the Right of both Israel and Palestine to exist.

10:27 PM  

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